Discrimination in the Netherlands for not speaking Dutch
Posted by: Gabriele in problems society, NT2, learn dutch, immigrants, expats Holland, discrimination on Oct 30, 2009
I use this space to take a load out of my chest. I live in Holland since 2006, and I am really experiencing very bad forms of racism. I am from Italy, I am into IT security, and moved to your country as I found a very good job opportunity. It lasted for nearly 2 years, till when I moved to a better position. In April this year I was "catched" by a small company with a good contract which turned out to be the worst choice I took in my life. I was fired after 4 months as the company went nearly bankrupt, and had to pay a lawyer to get my salary.
Now, I am covering an ad interim position (3 months role), and up to now I've sent something like 2000 CVs in order to find a permanent position, but each time - even if the role is advertised in plain English - I am left out with the excuse I don't speak any Dutch. Now, I am not a linguist, I have a conversational grasp of your language, I worked for nearly 3 years in an international environment where everyone just spoke English, and surely didn't help me to improve Dutch skills!!
If I stick to the declaration of human rights, the Article n.2 states that: "Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, **LANGUAGE**, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status."
Working at managerial level means that everyone is educated enough to use English as vehicular language, at least here in Holland. I took a Dutch course when I first arrived here, then I went into my routine and lost motivation to go further, particularly because everyone just switched to English as soon as I tried to speak Dutch. Now, I could accept to be rejected in another country where none speaks nothing but the national language, but here is not the case. Furthremore, nearly all roles I apply for, imply the use of English (to write reports, to communicate, etc).
What can I do to escape from this quibble? Could I have a chance if I "promise" to a potential employer to improve my language skills in a short time? Or do you know how I could find the job I know how to do, without being considered rubbish if compared to a Dutch speaker, in a working place where, at the end of the day, none will never speak any Dutch? I went in touch with headhunters, recruiters, HRs but none seemed to be very helpful...I don't want to go back to my home country,at least not now, but if I don't find a new position ASAP that's what I am forced to do. I find it really discriminating...
I hope you can do something to draw the attention on this problem, as it is really widespread here in Holland.
written by Marta, January 06, 2010
if the Ind gives me the Mvv i will move and i will try it but if for any reason i can see myself that its impossible i will return to my country.
all this stuff i am doing is because my girlfriend is from Holland.
honestly i have never met someone specially from Latin america that have learnt dutch or speak it fluently or perfect.
so my hopes are only few about it. Its almost impossible to understand them, they speak so fast and with that gggggggggg
but i will try it.
hugs
written by Syl, December 28, 2009
1. I applied to work at AH and during the interview they said that to work as a cashier at AH I have to speak dutch fluently because most of the time I have to
make small talks with the customers. Now... the AH I applied to is located in the city center and for as long as I have been going to this AH (I do my grocery
shopping almost always at this AH because I go to town almost every day), I have never seen a cashier made small talks to the waiting customers. How could
he/she when there are always a lot of people lining up to pay? It is a very busy AH for god's sake. OK, so once or twice a customer would have a question but
my dutch is not bad. I'm pretty sure I could handle those rare moments when a customer does ask a question and I'm sure I can say "tien euro negen-en-
negentig, aub. Fijne dag." - which basically what a cashier would say.
Then I asked about the vakkenvuller job - from my understanding and what my dutch bf told me, it's a job that mainly requires one to keep the shelves full.
So, if I can't be a cashier because they thought my dutch is not up to it, then here is a job i can do. Filling up shelves does not really require one to be
fluent in dutch, toch? But the interviewer said that that's a job for young people - students and teenagers.
2. Same thing happened when I applied for a vakkenvuller vacancy at xenos. This time I just walked into the shop and asked about the job vacancy advertised
at their windows. I was told that most of the people doing the job were young people.
All the interviews above were done in dutch. That should show that I understand dutch, at least at conversational level.
Everybody keeps saying that I have to learn dutch and as soon as I am able to speak Dutch I would find a job. But how good does my dutch have to be?
I passed my NT2 programma II. I think that is a very great accomplishment considering I just started to really live here and really learn the language from mid of 2007 (when I first came here in Sept 2006 I knew a bit of dutch but not enough to have a conversation). I will never speak perfect dutch because i am not dutch. And how many dutch people now speak perfect dutch?
To make my situation "worse", i'm not a citizen of EU although I do have a sofi-nummer and am allowed to work here in the Netherlands.
I have university diploma's from my country but they're not valid here. I have tried the diploma waardering route with no luck.
Discrimination is a strong word. I would probably not use it but I do feel I'm at a disadvantageous position and that I would never be someone's first or second or third or fourth or ... choice in filling up a vacancy.
written by Jansen, December 11, 2009
After 3 months in France I was able to communicate with the local, it feels so good to speak the local language. Don't tell the Dutch they are discriminating, it's you who's discriminating their language.....you don't see why you should learn it, because everybody speaks English?? Nobody seems very helpful....of course !! You want it all : a good position, not learning Dutch and being accepted. Something isn't wright here.....
written by iliana, November 19, 2009
I'm sorry to hear about your language/job related issues.
Here is my experience and opinion...
I am working for a international company in UK - everybody speaks English when it comes to work talk, but as soon as two non-UK people get together ...they switch to their language. I feel a bit left out (I speak English, and only a bit Spanish and French, along with mother tongue Bulgarian), but I can't complain as long as all work conversations are in English.
I had worked temporarily for an international company in Germany, with official work language being English - same thing happened there. And if you want to connect with the local community...you have to speak German.
I recently applied for a job in Sweden and one in the Netherlands.
The Swedish position was explicit - although English would be the working language, they require you to learn some ( but how much?) Swedish within the first year.
The position for NL said they require English. Period. However during the interview I was told - all work talk will be in English, however learning some Dutch would be regarded as a good indication that you would like to commit to the project/company in a long run , to become more socially involved, etc. Still, up to you if you want to do it or not...
In my opinion, accepting a job for more than a year in a foreign country would inevitably lead to needing the local language, so...try learning some more Dutch (if NL is where you want to be). Meanwhile, when applying for a job, ask the employer: what exactly do they require in terms of language skills, mention that you speak some Dutch and yes, tell them you are willing to learn more. I know of a couple of employers in NL who arrange language classes for their non-Dutch employees.
Good luck!
written by Sosuke Aizen, November 18, 2009
Intanto questo la dice lunga su questa Olanda, che sembra tanto permissiva, ma poi sotto sotto vedi come escono i nazionalismi e le xenofobie. Sono pieni di marocchini e muslim fino al midollo.
Imparati l'olandese!
Fino a che gireranno soldi, tutto andra' bene in olanda!
Dutch people are no other or better than people elsewhere. But if you truly try to speak our - dutch - language they will give you credit and accept you. It only takes time ! It takes years before you master the subtle things which makes speaking a language great fun, have patience !
Good luck !