Learn 2B Dutch Blog

I've been living in the Netherlands for 14 months now and studying the language for a little over a year. I certainly do not profess to be fluent, although I can communicate pretty easily in Dutch both in speech and in writing. What I have found that is slightly alarming is that the more Dutch I learn, the more of my own language I forget.

The other day for example, I was telling my mom about a meeting I had gone to. I wanted to get more involved in the group and was going to try to join one of the commissies. "One of the what?" Now here's where the problem came: I couldn't for the life of me think of the English word for commissie. I struggled for several minutes and could hear my mom getting frustrated on the other end of the line. So, I used what English words I could to explain what a commissie was. It was a group that got together to make decisions regarding various aspects of an organization. I gave examples of commissies I was in back in the US that I knew she knew about. "A committee?" Ah, yes, that would be the word.

Why was it so hard to come up with that? This was not the first time something like this has happened. Nor was it the last. Another one I remember having a hard time with when my brother was visiting last month was internship. I just couldn't come up with the English word on my own. Sometimes my husband finds himself translating from Dutch to English for me in addition to translating from English to Dutch. It's downright embarrassing.

But even worse is when I forget an English word when I don't even know the Dutch equivalent. In this instance the excuse of the Dutch word coming to mind first because I use it more often doesn't cut it - I don't know the Dutch word either! Dreaming in Dutch? Cool. Choosing Dutch over English regardless of circumstance the moment I've had one too many? Funny. Endearing even. Struggling with my mother tongue because living here has put me on Dutch overload? Frightening.

I recently spoke with a secretary at my husband's work. She's originally from Spain and has been living here for 25 years. She works in Dutch, all her relationships are in Dutch, she even speaks to her daughter in Dutch. She rarely dreams in Spanish anymore and finds it somewhat difficult to communicate in her native language when speaking to her family and friends back in Spain. She reassured me that my English is still there. All of it. It's just been pushed to a different location in my brain since it's not needed quite as often.

But for me, I still feel as though my memory is being erased. Perhaps this is the way the beginning stages of Alzheimer's feels. There are things you knew you knew that you can no longer recall. It's scary and it's frustrating, and you can't help but wonder what will happen to you in the more advanced stages. This correlation has me calling my condition Taalzheimer's - taal being the Dutch word for language.

Are any of you feeling the beginning stages of Taalzheimer's? Are there any readers in the more advanced stages? How does it feel and how do you cope? I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

*Taken from the blog Clogs and Tulips: An American in Holland

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Toen wij begin 2009 verhuisden van Amsterdam naar Hong Kong, spraken onze kinderen van zes en acht, van de ene op de andere dag meer Engels dan Nederlands. Omdat wij niet van plan zijn de rest van ons leven in Engelssprekende landen te wonen, vinden we het belangrijk dat onze kinderen goed Nederlands blijven spreken, lezen en schrijven.

Ik was nieuwsgierig hoe andere ouders het Nederlands van hun kinderen op peil houden en stuurde een email rond aan iedereen die ik kende in het buitenland en aan vrienden-met-vrienden-in-het-buitenland. De vraag die ik had was simpel: “Wat doe jij om het Nederlands van je kinderen op peil te houden”. Daarnaast plaatste ik op verschillende internetfora dezelfde vraag.

Veel reacties: “Nederlands blijven spreken en lezen”
Het eerste wat opviel, is de grote hoeveelheid reacties die ik ontving. Blijkbaar is het een onderwerp dat ouders na aan het hart ligt. Het allerbelangrijkste advies dat ik kreeg is dat we thuis vooral Nederlands moeten blijven spreken. Deze website besteedde hier onlangs ook al een interessant artikel aan.

Naast spreken, is het ook van groot belang (samen) te blijven lezen in het Nederlands, schreef een inhoudelijke deskundige me. “Omdat Nederlands en Engels heel anders in elkaar zitten, is het belangrijk dat kinderen Nederlandse woorden blijven zien. Door ze te zien, zullen ze de woorden onthouden en uiteindelijk ook weten hoe ze de woorden moeten schrijven”.

Zelf vind ik het blijven spreken in het Nederlands geen lastige opgave. Wat ik verder doe, is dat ik mijn kinderen probeer bij te brengen dat ze Nederlands spreken, wanneer dat kan. Dat klinkt eenvoudiger dan het is, want al na twee maanden school gingen ze van de ene op de andere dag onderling Engels spreken en blijkbaar zijn ze daarin niet uniek. Een van de mensen die reageerde: “Mijn zoon is nu vijf en net begonnen met primary school. Hij weigert om Nederlands te spreken. In eerste instantie weigerde ik te antwoorden als hij het niet in het Nederlands vroeg. Nu herhaal ik wat hij zegt in het Nederlands en ineens herhaalt hij het zelf ook”.

Het lezen van Nederlandse boeken is voor ons een grotere opgave. Ten eerste omdat de internationale school verlangt dat er dagelijks (!) in het Engels wordt gelezen met de kinderen en ten tweede omdat mijn kinderen lezen geen leuke bezigheid vinden.

De Nederlandse school
Daarnaast gaat een groot deel van de kinderen van de mensen die reageerden naar de Nederlandse School in hun woonplaats. Dit geldt vooral voor de kinderen die in stedelijke gebieden wonen. In dunbevolkte gebieden vind je meestal geen Nederlandse school. De ouders met kinderen op de Nederlandse school zijn blij dat die school er is. “Het is fijn dat vakkundige mensen zorgen dat mijn kinderen bijblijven met Nederlands”, schreef iemand. Voor veel mensen heeft de Nederlandse school ook een sociale kant: “Ik vind het sociale aspect minstens zo leuk als de inhoud. Mijn kinderen vinden het heerlijk om een paar uur in de week met Nederlandse kinderen, Nederlandse les te krijgen”.

Naast de overwegend positieve geluiden over de Nederlandse school, zijn er ook kritische geluiden. Het bijwonen van de lessen en het maken van huiswerk kost veel tijd en energie en omdat dit bovenop de normale school komt, is de belasting voor sommige ouders en/of kinderen gewoonweg te zwaar. “Wij werken allebei, ik zou niet weten hoe ik onze drie kinderen op woensdagmiddag van hun verschillende scholen moet halen om ze vervolgens naar de Nederlandse school te brengen”. Of: “School is voor door de week, ik vind het te veel gevraagd voor mijn kinderen om ze ook nog op zaterdag naar de Nederlandse school te laten gaan. Zaterdag is voor sporten en spelen”.

Een andere ouder zegt: “Mijn kinderen gaan niet meer naar de Nederlandse school. Ik vind het zonde dat hij een flink deel van de tijd op school met dingen bezig is die hij al beheerst. Mijn zoon is bijvoorbeeld goed in begrijpend lezen, maar minder in spelling. Het zou fijn zijn als er meer maatwerk zou worden geleverd. Zeker ook omdat de Nederlandse school niet om de hoek is. Ik heb besloten het Nederlandse onderwijs zelf te gaan verzorgen, met hulp van software van Juffrouw Blom.

Afstandsonderwijs
En dan is er nog een flinke groep ouders, die woont in een gebied waar geen Nederlandse school actief is. “Ik zou willen dat hier een Nederlandse school was, want ik maak mij grote zorgen over de Nederlandse taal van mijn kind. Het lijkt na twee jaar al nergens meer op”.

Sommige van deze ouders kiezen voor het afstandsonderwijs van de Wereldschool of Edufax.  “Ik ben blij dat deze instanties er zijn. Ik ben zelf geen onderwijzer en zou niet weten waar ik zou moeten beginnen”. Naast veel positieve, zijn er over deze vorm van onderwijs ook negatieve geluiden te horen. “Wat ik jammer vind, is dat er veel begeleiding van de kant van de ouders nodig is en die tijd heb ik met drie kinderen en een baan, eigenlijk niet”. Een andere veelgehoorde klacht is dat het te lang duurt voordat er feedback komt. “Tegen de tijd dat je kind de resultaten te zien krijgt, weet hij al niet meer dat hij de oefeningen heeft gedaan”.

Een ander bezwaar is de prijs van de Edufax en Wereldschoolprogramma’s. Iemand schreef: “Wij moeten het zelf betalen, en eigenlijk is het voor ons te duur”.

Niks doen
En dan nog de laatste groep. Dat waren niet de mensen die spontaan reageerden op mijn e-mails en posts op internetfora, maar mensen die ik her en der tegenkwam. Dat zijn de ouders die het Nederlands voorlopig laten voor wat het was. “Ik ben te druk” was het argument. Of: “…te zware belasting voor de kinderen, ze hebben al zoveel huiswerk”. Ze vertrouwden er op dat de kinderen, eenmaal terug in Nederland, weer net zo snel Nederlands zouden leren als dat ze het Engels hadden opgepakt.

Wat is wijsheid?
Voor onze eigen kinderen heb ik, mede op basis van de reacties, besloten om ze naar de Nederlandse School hier in Hong Kong te laten gaan. Daarnaast laat ik ze een uurtje per week oefenen met Nederlands op de computer en gaan we deze zomer zo lang als mogelijk naar Nederland. Onder het mom van taalonderwijs ontvluchten we de snikhete zomer van HK. Tot groot plezier van de oma’s.

Door: Ellen Blom van Juffrouw Blom

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There's no doubt that the Internet is a fabulous source. There seems to be a website for everything nowadays, and search engines like Google bring information right to our fingertips with the simple click of a button.

 So why not use the Internet to help you learn a little Dutch? Since beginning my Dutch Language journey back in January '09, I have acquired quite the collection of websites that specialize in helping it's visitors learn Dutch. Here's a list of the ones I've used and find helpful with a brief description of each. If you have any sites you've used that are not listed here, please feel free to add them in a comment. Also, be sure to read my article How to Write the Dutch Language on ehow.com !

Babel Fish Translator - It's not a Dutch teaching site, but it is still a valuable tool. By translating things you don't understand or don't fully understand, you can get an idea of what is being said or written and possibly learn some new words as well.  Be careful though, as Babel Fish translates literally and in the order the words appear in the original text.

 Dutch Grammar -  This is actually an online course complete with worksheets, downloads, links, books, a forum, and an audio section. Lessons cover word order, pronouns, nouns and articles, spelling and pronunciation, verbs, and adverbs and adjectives.

 Verbix - A verb conjugator. Very handy. The link here goes directly to the Dutch verb conjugator, but other languages are available as well. Just type in the verb in its infinitive form and let Verbix do the rest.

 Inter Glot - Quick and easy (and very efficient) dictionary. Several languages are available and you can chose what language you're staring out with and what language you want to end up with.

 Laura Speaks Dutch- When Brenno de Winter met an American woman named Laura, he wanted an easy way to teach her the language. He did so by using the medium he knows best: podcasts. Through a series of podcasts (he's up to episode 56 at the time of this posting), he teaches her the Dutch language using real life scenarios.

Acapela Group - This website is great for learning how to pronounce those difficult Dutch words. Under "voices" select either Femke or Max. Type the word or phrase you want to know how to pronounce in the "text" box and press "say it". The program will read the text back to you.

2bDutch - Of course, I could never leave this one out! Through it's blogs and vidoes, 2bDutch brings Dutch culture and language to life. All videos include Dutch subtitles as well as subtitles in the language of your choice so you can year it in Dutch, read it in Dutch, and read the translation. The site also includes a wealth of tips and advice on integrating and learning the language.

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Or if I was going to use lovely Dutch word order, I guess that would be "how to Dutch learn".

Anyway, as my first blog, I thought I might respond to some one who, to an audience of no one, exclaimed on the chat room wall, "someone tell me how to learn Dutch!" I found this quite silly as it seemed to suggest there was some magic formula, fairy dust or potion that imbued one with the magical ability to communicate fluently with native speakers. Clearly I do not actually think that the person in question actually believes this, I am just trying to find the light-hearted side.

However, the question is still valid. So I thought I would share my experiences after 6 months of delving ever deeper into the Dutch tongue.

 I started by throwing money at the problem. I am lucky to recieve a good salary and to live relatively cheaply, thus I could show my commitment by buying Rosetta Stone levels one and two. These language learning CDs have been heavily advertised in the UK. They use a method called “dynamic immersion” which aims to allow a person to learn a language as a child would: through exposure. I must say, I had a marvelous time. I honestly couldn't put it down. Thanks to a few days off work due to food poisoning I made excellent progress and completed it in about 2 months. 

 So, what are pros and cons of this method. Clearly it is good fun. It does really help you to remember the words and basically it does what the adverts say. Now, I didn't do level 3, so I can't comment on that, but really I don't rate it very highly overall. There are several reasons for this.

1) A lack of formalized grammar. The thing with learning a language like you did when you were a child (as Rosetta Stone likes to talk about in adverts) is that you learn grammar by being exposed to every single one of it’s variants in every single context. This works. Being exposed to the rule in maybe three or four contexts just doesn’t work. For example, Rosetta Stone taught me how to say “Ik ben geweest” (which uses the verb zijn) and “Ik heb gegeten” (which uses the verb hebben) and I did know that sometimes the verb hebben is used and sometimes the verb zijn is used in these sort of constructions. However, I didn’t know the rule that determines which to use. This meant that I had no grounding to form any new sentences that Rosetta Stone hadn’t already taught me. Thus if the Rosetta Stone technique was going to really teach you grammar in the way that a child learns (i.e. without knowing the rule) then it would have to expose you to every single sentence so that you knew which verb to use.

2) Stressed pronouns. Rosetta Stone often uses stressed forms (jij or jou for example) when they are not necessarily appropriate.

3) No colloquial words. There are so many marvelous little words in Dutch that Rosetta Stone wont teach you (at least in 1 and 2 but I suspect 3 also). Examples include nou, gewoon, net or even. These are incredibly frequent words in Dutch but they do not fall into Rosetta Stone’s robotic definition of a language.

4) No colloquial phrases. When I started a more traditional approach, one of the first phrases I learnt was zeg trouwens maar ‘je’. It was at this point that I realized the failings of Rosetta Stone. This sentences means “let’s speak informally”. It is vital in the transition from a formal conversation to a more relaxed and friendly one. It is a key part of forming relationships.

And here is the key point. No one uses language in the way that Rosetta Stone teaches it. There really isn’t much more to say than that. Language is full of nuances, rules, flare and beauty. You will not get any of that from Rosetta Stone.

I paid something like 300 pounds for Rosetta Stone and I think it was good value for money. I had fun doing it. Maybe it is an okay starting point. But I absolutely believe that Rosetta Stone alone is far too robotic to get you even half way to being conversational, to use language to relate to people, to be part of a community. Het begint met taal.

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Let’s see… where to begin? Well, I am a 26-year-old American who moved to the Netherlands for my Dutch husband. I’ve found that the whole “Dutch partner” thing is pretty typical here.

I met my husband in September 2007 and started learning some silly words from him like voetjevrijen (“footsies”) and schatje (“sweetie”). He eventually taught me how to count and the “biggie” verbs: hebben (“to have”) and zijn (“to be”). As Walt Disney said, it is a “Small world after all.” Just to drive home that fact, there happened to be a Dutch exchange student at the high school where my mother was teaching at the time. It was this student, Naomi, who prepared me for the dreaded “Meeting of the Future In-laws” (which becomes just that much more terrifying when you don’t speak the same language). While all of this was fun and helpful, it certainly was not enough to get by once I was actually living in the Netherlands.

My mother is a stickler for being able to speak enough of the language to get by in whatever country you plan to visit. So it never crossed my mind to live in the Netherlands and not learn the language. I have also had this innate desire to be fluent in a second language and have long been jealous of those who are bilingual. I studied Spanish and then French during high school (four and three years respectively) and did extremely well, but, as the saying goes “if you don’t use it, you lose it.” And I lost 99% of the Spanish and roughly half of the French. So I see this as being my ‘big chance.’ Mainly because I now have one key aspect that I was missing with the other two languages: immersion.

I am a firm believer that there is truly only one way to learn a language, and that’s the instruction/immersion combo. During instruction by a certified teacher, you learn the structure and the ‘why’s’. Basically, you learn to speak, read, and write the language correctly. With the immersion piece, you hear it all the time and you can apply what you learn in class to real life as well as learn the way the people speak the language – not just the way the text book uses the language.

I started using the Dutch I knew right away. Even when my vocabulary only included dankuwel and alstublieft, I forced myself to use English only to fill in the gaps. Now I use it only when I have asked the person to repeat themselves or speak slower and I still don’t understand.

Another great piece of advice is to speak it all the time. During the break in my Dutch class, I sit with the teacher and listen to and speak with her. I also use it with my husband more frequently as my Dutch improves. And my husband’s friends speak more Dutch around me now that they know I understand the majority of what they’re saying. I play a little game with myself to see how little English I can use whenever I go shopping or to the dreaded Gemeentehuis. I also joined a Dutch practice group through the International Women’s Club I joined here in Utrecht. The woman who leads the group has lived in the Netherlands for 12 years and is positively fluent. She has really given me something to aspire to.

Dutch is undoubtedly a complicated language. I have found bits and pieces of French and English within it, but all in all, it is nothing like any other language I have studied. The structure of sentences is very complicated. You’re always in suspense until you get to the end of the sentence, which is where the verb usually is. And no matter how much I practice or how hard I think about it, niet always eludes me. Where on earth do you put it depending on the point you want to get across? There are just so many rules and exceptions! The bijzin, in my opinion, is by far the worst. You just can’t translate them literally. Although I will admit that it is fun! Take “als je Nederlands wil leren” for example… “if you Dutch want to learn”??? You gotta love it!

My husband loves the little oddities I come up with. For instance, I learned rather quickly that you cannot directly translate everything. “Home sweet home” does not become “Thuis lief thuis.” Nor does “Kijk naar je mond” mean the same as “Watch your mouth.” Then there’s the art of communicating in simpler words you do know when you don’t know the appropriate vocabulary. This is an art I have not quite mastered: chopping an onion and saying to my husband, with tears streaming down my face (as happens when one cuts onions) and saying “Mijn ogen heeft water.”

How about you: any Dutch speaking faux pas’ native Dutch speakers have given you an odd look over? I know you have them!

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I've been living in Holland now for about 5 years. In this time I managed to learn Dutch (though I still would like to improve it a lot) and become friends with Erwin (yes, the dude from 2bdutch). Erwin asked me to write about my experience of learning Dutch and give some tips about things I found particularly helpful. I'm very happy to do that as I find 2bdutch a truly wonderful way of learning a foreign language that especially suits my style of learning. Actually as I was starting learning the language I was frantically surfing the internet looking for a site that offered what 2bdutch offers. A collection of videos with subtitles about interesting topics and of variying degrees of language difficulty. Sadly I found none. The only things I could find were sites offering to teach me the Dutch grammar and increase my vocabulary through memorizing longs lists of words. But this is utterly useless. Learning a language should be fun. It should be relevant. It should be effective. And what is a better way to achieve all that than watch Erny tease Bert about counting non-existent watermelons?

When I arrived in Holland I knew no Dutch except for a few words I learned. What I did in the first few months was practice the very little I knew. This included carrying out such simple conversations that started with "Hoe gaat het?" and ended with "Ook goed". This went on for a while and gradually I picked some more words and phrases I could use. Initially, I was planning to follow a course in order to improve my Dutch. I could not register for the course that started just when I arrived and thus had to wait a few months. When the time came the course started. I was very enthousiastic since this was a course given by a very prestigious institute (it was also very expansive, but my university paid for it) so I had high hopes. Sadly the course did not meet any of the expectations I had. The focus of the course was grammar. Thus it was boring and ineffective. Learning a language through grammar is unnatural. It is like learning to ride a bicycle by learning physics. If you just look at kids it becomes obvious. They all learn a language but they do not do it through grammar. They do not know the grammar. They do not need to know it. They learn it through experience. Through play. By having fun. Imagine that somebody offered to teach you how to ride a bike by sitting in a classroom and learning the physics of gravity, rotation, inertia, and balance. What is the point? Just take your bike and go for a ride. Do it carefully at first and practice in a safe parking lot or something. But as soon as possible go for a ride along the river and have some fun!

This is therefor my tip about learning Dutch (and any foreign language). Simply do it. Speak it even though you know you make more mistakes than anything else. Dont worry about it too much. Just use it and enjoy it. And as soon as possible start reading simple books. Kids books at first. This improves the vocabulary at an enormous rate and it's fun. Take a book you have read before in a language you know well and reread it in Dutch. And of course watch some videos on 2bdutch.

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